SEMESTER that might haunt you!!!!!

I still remember Dr. Foster's words on the first day of class "this class will haunt you" and indeed at times such as two or three in the morning during the semester it has on certain days but all in all I feel it has been well worth the stress it has given with all the demands it has shed on me. This class has really made me think about many things in a new light such as Paul's "conversion" and whether it was even that. It has also made me dive deeper into the text at times to understand the meaning of the text than I generally have in the past. I have been reminded this semester that every word in scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, and training in righteousness and that it is not just advice but is actually "purpose driven".

Through the major paper for the class I was stretched academically and spiritually as I honestly explored what Paul actually meant when he wrote Ephesians 2:1-10. Over many long nights and sweat and tears and maybe a little bit of blood I really began to understand what Grace really was better than it had ever been explained to me by anyone in the past. I feel throughout this class I have been better prepared to lead others and that I am realizing the amount of study that should be poured into God's word not only for teaching but also for our own relationships with God to grow.
In the words of a wise man....."peace be with you"(yeah I am talking about Jesus)
Ira R.

...and That's the Whole Ball of Wax

The Pauline Corpus has always had an impact for me on my life. To think that some Pharisee who used to persecute Christianity could experience some miraculous appearing of the risen Christ and become Christianity's strongest advocate and defender is a feat that only God could arrange. I have learned many things about Paul's life and ministry: Grace was a major theme of Pauls writings; boasting is not sinful when used to glorify the Lord; but I believe the idea that I have come to understand throughout the writings of Paul is the significance of suffering in the Christian life. This idea pops up in almost every writing by Paul; he was one of the best experienced in this turmoil for the sake of Christ. It only gives me hope that when I am suffering for my faith, Christ is right there beside me nodding his head saying, "Now you are taking up your cross."
Pauline Epistles will be a class that will stick with me (haunt me) for the rest of my life. I praise God that I chose to take this class and even more so that I was challenged in many ways by it (ideologically, mentally, spiritually, sometimes even physically). The environment of the class itself was very relaxed to me and made me comfortable in my note taking and in understanding the concepts, especially the ones I had never heard of. Blogging itself created challenges for the sake of time; but I personally enjoyed it that I was able to think of a theological idea from a different standpoint or sometimes just pat someone on the back and tell them that I agreed with them. All in all, regardless of grade, Pauline Epistles will ever be in my heart.

Zach Pyron (DTS/AIC...DEAD TO SIN/ALIVE IN CHRIST)

Wrapping it all up...in a box of sardines!

So this semester in Pauline has been interesting, and challenging. I have really enjoyed getting completely emersed in the Pauline Corpus. There is so much more still to learn from Paul and his ministry. One of my favorite things about this class, and one of the things that made the class alot easier to enjoy and learn, was Dr Foster's passion for most of the subjects. It is always easier to sit through a Tuesday/Thursday class if the teacher wants to be there, and enjoys teaching and discussing the material being presented. I also enjoyed the seminar, this was a first time expierence for me, and I think that more professors should consider this in thier upper level classes.

Along with gaining more knowledge from this course...I gained some new friends. There were alot of people in this class, that I had never talked to nor had I had the opprotunity to talk to before. I really enjoyed getting to know my fellow ministry majors better, some I had known for awhile, and also the ones I didn't know at all. All in All, this class has challenged me spiritually, it has provided some encouragement for my daily life...and well also my academic life...which I guess is daily life too...but anyway, I really got a lot out of this class. So Hasta Pasta!

Abbilicious

Another one bites the dust

According to yesterday's horoscope I will be rewarded for the work I've accomplished, as I've learned this semester, I guess only time will tell. I've been shown how Paul was masterful at the way he pastored and mentored people. Without being overly harsh or arrogant he put people in their place by being honest with them out of love. He found ways to teach them that were familiar to them and sometimes had special significance to them. Paul's consistancy and passion for the health of the local church is to be admired and imulated. I think that churches today could use some honesty out of love and concern rather than leaders being afraid of rejection or retaliation. I know now by looking at Paul's letters that their is a way to communicate concerns to a body of believers out of love for them without attacking them or insulting their intellegence.
Outside of that, I've learned an abundance of contextual information that I did not know before, and had to relearn some things that I thought wrong. The importance of the culture and civilization became much more apperent this semester. In writing my paper I learned that although there may be questions about who wrote what and when, there is still truth in what we have before us, and by looking past the doubt we strengthen our faith in God and His providence through the scriptures.
I need to apologize for spelling errors due to my drowsiness. pseudoephedrine works wonders. All hail the mighty Drixoral.
Well, that's enough out of me...peace out.

Mr. Bill Lee Faber

Reflections on a Semester

What has Pauline Epistles taught me? Nothing. Nothing at all.

That is, unless you count things like the Beatitudes of an Exegete...or the tests of a good interpretation...or the two-city approach to understanding Paul...or the reinterpretation of Paul's conversion in the paradigm of the call of an OT prophet...or a detailed understanding of the first, second and third missionary journeys...or the inherent contrasts between Lukan and Pauline theologies.

But I mean, if you're going to count stuff like that, you might as well also count things like the compositional analysis of Philippians...or a deeper, better understanding of Paul's opponents...or the right way to perform a mirror reading of an epistle...or the theological and social problems occurring in Corinth that prompted two canonical letters from Paul...or the overarching themes of Romans...or the historical, stylistic, and theological problems associated with incorporating Colossians into the Pauline corpus...or the impact of Second Temple Judaism upon the deciphering of confusing Pauline passages.

But c'mon...who cares about that stuff?

(Hint: I do.)

Virtue List

Paul gives a virtue list to the Christian’s at Colossi in chapter three verse twelve. He says to put on compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. Paul continues to with forgiveness and love. I think this is very good for every believer to look and ask themselves whether their life reflects these Christ like attribute. I believe the most important virtue comes in verse fourteen when Paul says to put on love. If we have love then compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience are taken care of. Paul declares that love is the perfect bond of unity. Having real unity within the church seems impossible but it is a necessity. It is well known that the church does not function the way it should without unity. The issue is that believers need to be able to love as Christ loved them.
Stephen

Pure Doctrine

My favorite part of the discussion today in class involved the opponents of Paul and his teachings. The Jewish opponents emphasized the Jewish holy days such as the annual festivals, the Sabboths, and the New Moon celebrations. I am sure that this "hit a nerve" with Paul. His main purpose in writing to the church at Colosse was to bring to the attention of the new Christians the importance of guarding against false teachings. The Jewish opponents were trying to acceive piety by their observances of their Jewish traditions. Paul was trying to emphazise the importance of focusing on Jesus and humility. Paul was demonstrating that their concept of humility by practicing outward bodily sacrificial actions was not really being humble but a status symbal. What one does in private correspondance with God is what counts, not outward actions.

Vicky

The Mystery Book

Of the many questions about the book of Colossians and if it is even Pauline at all, the one that stood out the most to me was the one dealing with the issues of Colosse. This has a lot to do with all the rest of the questions, because most scholars think that the language in Colossians is different then all the other Pauline books. While this is true for the most part it is different language because Paul is dealing with different opponents, and he does it by using their language and thier culture to show them the reality of Christ, and this is infact a Pauline concept to doing things. Paul is reaching out to them on their level and by doing this he shows them how important it is to have the real teaching of Scriptures and not the false teachings of the many diverse supposed concepts that the city was supposely full of. Things ranging from Hellenistic Mysteries to Jewsih Mysticism and all the many in between that we discussed in class today. I think that when you put into context that Paul is always trying to show the simplicity of the Gospel, but showing that though it is easy to become a Christian but very difficult to be a Christian he is giving them the full truth. This is how I like to minister to people as well, by reaching them on their level, because all this theolgy jargon they might not know, but they can know the truth if you reach them on their level. Disciple OF a Glorified God , JB

Requesting Prayer from a Brother is not the same as praying through a Saint.

I am responding to the comment about asking our others to pray on our behalf. It is not the same as praying to a saint on our behalf. There is nothing wrong or unbiblical about praying for one another. I also believe that we are supposed to lift each other up in prayer. I don't think that any of us believe if our Pastor prays for us that the prayer will be heard over ours. On the contrary, Catholics do believe whether their doctrinal statement says so or not, that the Saints as well as the priest prayers are heard over their indivual prayers, or they wouldn't go to confession or hold the virgin Mary in such high regards. The idea of asking a brother to pray for you has not been taken to the extent of praying through the saints. We do not make statues or wear beads, or have paintings of the brothers we ask to pray for us in our homes or churches. The idea of a person who is dead praying on my behalf is not logical. We also don't know for sure that just because the Catholic Church deems someone as a saint that they are held as a saint in heaven. Some Catholics don't even agree on who should become a Saint. There also is no scriptural basis for someone in heaven to have any interaction with the living on earth. I understand the point that was trying to be made in class, and some do fall into that category, but not those who know better. The bottom line is that praying for someone else is not the same as asking a dead person to pray for you. All men are created equally in the eyes of God.

The Mystery Book

Paul's Opponents

I am suprised not more people mentioned that God was a woman. I figured that would raise a few eyebrows and get some fingers to typing. Unfortunately this is also not going to be a persuasive argument about how God is feminine and therefore wears womens jeans (Father forgive me for my blasphemy...). The most intriguing part of this Colossians discussion of Paul has been the idea of his opponents. There is so much specualtion as to who was the problem and there are many persuasive arguments out there to support every idea. Yet, I feel that Polhill did give the most practical explination when he mentioned that Paul's opponents were a blend of the different speculations. Which brought of the point of over simplifying the matter. Paul had opponents when writing this letter, that is proven. And I believe that is a combination of different opponents and not a set form of opponents.

Paul the Hymnist?

I like how Polhill talks about the “stanzas” of Paul’s Christ Hymn: first stanza—Christ, Firstborn of creation; second stanza—Christ, Firstborn from among the dead. The idea of Christ’s presence in the creation reflects the idea that John portrays in the 1^st chapter: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” For years I have often thought that Jesus was an afterthought (God already knew he was going to do it, but he thought he would try the Law first) of creation, but I have come to realize through my understanding of theology that Jesus was there the whole time and was in the forefront of God’s mind from the very act of creation. Christ is also the firstborn from among the dead; this is a nearly eschatological idea pointing to the resurrection of everyone else too. Jesus has already experienced the death and resurrection to make him that much better than us. I think someone should take this hymn idea and run with it…no Stamps and Baxter…Baptist Hymnal!

Zach

essesnes

I have to say that I think that Colossians was written in responce to the essesnes. From my study of the essesnes the list of problems that Paul has seems to hit several of the essesnian beliefs. If the synogue in Colossi was essesnian then the essesnes would have much influeance with the people. We have seen how that Jews from the synogue have caused Paul trouble before, why not the essesnes?
Danny

No other god's before me...

Does angel worship have any significance in today’s society? In doing a brief study about angel worship in Colosse, I understood that angel worship can still be looked at in today’s society. At first I would not have thought that, but I now do. No matter which group had an influence or how they actually worshiped angels, they were still putting God second. I look at society today and see films were people in some sort of way envy angels. There are a lot of movies today that focus on angels instead of God and we see several of them through out our lives. I think the most important thing to understand about the passage of scripture is there should be no other god’s before him. Why worship something that the creator made?

Brother in Christ,
Billy Hardesty

Prayer to Who?!

"Worship of angels and saints" was put into better perspective for me today. I did not know from where the "justification" of such acts actually derived from. Though it is not worship (theoretically/doctrinally), it many times is precieved that way in such traditions as Catholicism and Greek orthodox and even Lutheranism. I was glad to know that the roots of such practices came from upright motives; the idea of encouraging "saints/angels=holy ones" to interceed upon our behalf is not such a terrible thing. Like Dr. Foster said, it is similar to our protestant tradition of asking a "strong brother" to pray for us. But does our own tradtion not leave way for person worship? Possibly... probably. In either case it can be dangerous to place others on such high pedestals.

Jesus is, The Savior, the Advocate, the Redeemer, and the Righteos One, by who's blood we are made righteous.

The fact of the matter is Paul prayed for others and Jesus prayed for others, so then should we. either of the two prayed to anyone but God the Father.

a Colossian and American problem

I really like Paul’s exaltation of Christ in Colossians because like the recipients I also find myself seeing Christ as inadequate. Our society permeates with this mindset. If you don’t believe me, observe our culture. What has everyone asked you about your weekend? Probably the question, “what did you do?” I don’t have a problem with the question; I am sure I asked others the same thing, but why do we not ask, “how was worship or what did Christ do?” We have an inclination that we must be busy doing something fun or our time is wasted. I catch myself jam packing my free time and thoughts with all kinds of activities; internet surfing, sports, canoeing, biking, and time with friends. Lately I have often put “practicing the presence of God” underneath happiness. As if Christ is not adequate to provide joy, peace, and fulfillment. The Colossians were doing the same thing, but in a different way. Paul’s word to them was, “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him al things were created: things in heaven and on earth…He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.” He created a tiny earth in a huge universe. Christ is far above being worthy of worship and we should worship him.

kevin

saints, angels and the like...

Coming from a Catholic family I can fully appreciate the comment by Dr. Foster about praying to saints. It has always been told to me that Catholics do not pray to the saints, but rather through the saints. I must admit I always took the typical Baptist stance on the issue and regarded praying through a saint to God to be pointless and a bit childish. It was not until today that I better understood the issue. We often have others pray for us, as if our prayers will somehow not be heard by God. This was really put in context for me today. The discussion about the use of angels in Colossians gives me reassurance that the Christians of the first century were in some extent facing the same issue that we are today. It is so amazing to me how God uses a letter written thousands of years ago to minister to us today.

-Steven Price

Paul's Defense of the Gospel

I believe that the explanation of Paul's defense of himself sheds light on the position of the apostles in relation to the gospel. In modern Christianity, we separate the messengers from the message. If one major evangelist sins and loses credibility, some Christians may becomed disillusioned, but the message of the gospel will not die. On the contrary, in Paul's situation, the credibility of the gospel message hinged on the credibility of Paul. This was not necessarily a correct way to view the gospel, nevertheless the culture of honor and shame dictated that the messenger was just important as the message. I believe that such a perception of the gospel persists outside of Christian circles. Honor and shame may not be as potent as it was at the time of Paul, but many non-Christian people still watch and wait for a messenger of the gospel to fall.
In Christ,
Paul

Overly Complicated

Rather than agree with Pohill's statement that we overly simplify the letter of Colossians, I disagree. Based on the several arguements of Paul's opponents it seems as though we try to overly complicate it. Accepting Pohill's theory that this document may be a combination of several issues is more of a simplification. Trying to seperate Paul's opponents in to different categories makes things complicated, especially purposing different arguements for each. I like Pohill's thinking that this may be a combination of issues, but this doesn't really answer the problem at hand. Trying to decipher who his true opponents were based on the styling and vocabulary seems to more pin point the problem. This complicates the document, but searches for the true meaning behind it. Blessed are those who study text rather than topics, because they will inherit integrity.

Christ is big enough

For the past few years I have struggled with my ability to fully execute my responsibilities to the absolute best of my abilities. I try so hard to do the absolute best and have become a perfectionist. For the longest time I have feared that if I did not do the absolute best performance possible that I have failed God. Even more I feared that by not performing accurately in my ministry that the repercussions could be horrible for those who rely on me for spiritual guidance and council. I have put so much pressure on myself that I have basically become miserable, constantly trying to work in fear of failure and the results of it. But after reading the hymn in Colossians, I have realized my mistake. I had put Christ in a box and thought that the results of my ministry relied on my efforts and my planning. In reality, Christ is the one who rules all things. He conquered the powers and authorities, not I. I have repeated the mistakes of the Colossians by trying to make my studies and ministry my attempt to gain holiness and acceptance and not seeing that Christ is big enough to handle it all. I rejoice knowing that Christ is Lord over all and nothing can ever defeat Him!!! I do not plan to be a complete slacker when it comes to my responsibilities, but I can now breathe a giant sign of relief knowing that no matter how good or bad my efforts are, Christ is big enough to use me and take care of my mistakes.

Travis Adams

What really matters

I think that in reading Polhill and also, after discussion in class today that it is essential to look at all views on a subject but not to forget the importance of what it all means. I am referring to the entire discussion and part in Polhill where we learned who all were possible opposers of Paul in Colossians. I think it is really good that Polhill points out that we do not always need to explain everything and have all the facts as long as we can come to an understanding as to what the major problem was and how Paul dealt with the issue. The point being that there was an 'inadequate view of Christ' in this church. Paul deals with this by giving a picture of the exalted Christ, one that Polhill argues is the most exatled in all of Paul's epistles. I like how Polhill continually brings up arguments but reminds us what we should focus on, and gets to the meat of the issues he presents.

Good stuff

Abbilicious

Salvation

Romans 10:9 confuses me, is that a salvation experience to speak the name of Christ and believe in your heart. I hear words of people saying about their " salvation experience" is this what we are talking about here? I do believethe words of Paul and the bible as truth I just don't understand if this is a one time experience of "when I accepted Christ" or a more logical beleif of professing and believing in Christ everyday.

-Jacob

keep your shirt on!!!!!!

Today in class the question was raised if angel worship was really happening in Colosse and Dr. Foster made the comment that you do not create rules for things that are not being done. this made me think of Paul's writings in a different way in that many things that I saw as Paul just giving helpful advice or suggestions in his letters were probably written for a specific purpose. Looking at his writting from this standpoint makes much of Paul's writting more understandable and brings a greater impact because of specific purposes for everything written. This makes comprehension even more important as we study the texts because many if not all of the situations that Paul addresses can and will impact us in our present culture.

Peace, Ira

abstinence

In Collose, Paul is being opposed by Jews how were attempting to demonstrate holines through strict adherence to the law. These people measured their place in God's favor by doing works and by abstaining from certain things of the flesh. Paul in response to this questions these people by asking, "if you with Christ died to the elemental spirits of thwe world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to its regulations -"do not handle, do not taste, to not touch"... What is Paul saying here? Is he saying we have no need to abstain from the indulgence of the flesh because we are dead to it? (This would seem like a Gnostic argument.) No, what he is saying is that Holiness is not meausred in the law but rather in the heart. If we read the early part of the chapter (vs. 8-15) we can clearly see that verse 20 and 21 are a mere echo of what is formerly stated: Holiness and salvation is found in Christ and in the heart, not the flesh.

A recipe for unity in the church

Right after Paul speaks of things that should not be a part of the Christian life, he speaks of things that should be a part of the lives of those who are “God’s chosen ones, holy and loved.”
In Colossians 3:12-17, Paul tells the church to “put on heartfelt compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience”. This is a list of traits that Christians should stick with, and it seems to be mixed in with love, which Paul says is the perfect bond of unity. When harmony in a body of believers becomes broken, the problem may be traced back to failed attempts to correctly display this list of compassion and love. Why do churches split so often? Could it be that sometimes the members of the church forget the love that was freely given to them? How can someone believe that it is ok to withhold forgiveness from any person. The fact is that no one is deserving of forgiveness, but God has given it to us and we are to reflect this. If anyone has a complaint, be forgiving just as you were forgiven. This is Paul’s recipe for unity in the church.

The contradicting James

I realize that it is a little late to discuss Romans, as we talked about it previously but something has been intriguing me. I encounter rather often those who say that James and Paul did not agree on issues of faith and works. It would seem in a precursory reading of the two authors that a conflict does in fact occur. However upon closer inspection of such verses as are found in Romans chapter five it is clear that Paul himself held that works were important to the faith. By no means did he intend for works to become the foundation upon which salvation was recieved but instead saw it as a natural outgrowth of his faith. I have long felt, and now it has been confirmed, that the works that we see in our lives are important because of what they show off, but showing them off does not make one more spiritual.

Kenneth

Paradigmatic Instability

For two thousand years, the Christian church has operated under the fundamental philosophical assertion that humans are clients in need of a divine patron to provide them with what they lack. This paradigm is certainly not unique to Christianity; it is the framework by which almost every religion operates. But is this truly an accurate depiction of the divine/human relationship?

A New Model Proposed

I am a firm believer in the test of exclusivity; all things being equal, the only correct religion will be the most unique religion. If we claim to have the only truth, and yet share much with many other faiths, we must re-examine either our truth-claim or our doctrinal precepts. (Of course, one must never forget the effect of sociocultural and religious derivation in this type of analysis.)

The question then is: Should Christianity be built upon the idea that we lack something that God can give to us?

I offer for consideration a paradigm based upon the relational model of understanding the Gospel. Instead of humans coming to God in search of something that's missing from us, we come to God in search of a relationship.

Consequences of the New Model

This paradigmatic shift would not come without cost:
1) A reinvention of Scripture would become necessary. Instead of Scripture being the "only rule of faith and obedience" and an "effectual means" by which God interacts with us (questions 3 and 155 of the Westminster Larger Catechism), Scripture must become primarily a historical document, to be viewed with authority roughly equal to any other document produced in the Greco-Roman world.
2) The concept of sin would have to be discarded. The concept of sin, and the associated concepts of justification and sanctification, are perhaps the most well-known direct representations of the old paradigm in the world. Although the discarding of these ideas would cause a dramatic impact upon our society, it would be an impact not without significant benefit. The uncountable millions of people who consider themselves to be "good persons" would no longer be tortured by self-fulfulling notions of guilt and despair. This concept is, without question, the most psychologically damaging aspect of our religion; we owe it to ourselves and to our loved ones to no longer torture ourselves. This freedom is the impetus for the entire paradigm shift.
3) Orthodoxy and orthopraxy would be drastically altered. It is perhaps impossible to predict what church would look like under the proposed paradigm, or what the content of one's individual faith might become. This uncertainty should not be an effective deterrent, however; all great discoveries, voyages, and reinventions are accompanied with uncertainty.

I have only sketched out here a few brief thoughts on the matter; further thought would be welcome.